RE: Are we losing active users?

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RE: Are we losing active users?

valued-customer in #active • 11 days ago

"...bring memes here..."

Memes came here long ago. Everyone that brought them were flagged off the platform because plagiarism.

"...let ppl have fun..."

No fun allowed, unless it profits the oligarchy.

"Rethink downvotes..."

I posted last month seeking comment on how to improve DV management on Hive. I received no comments, not one, providing any possible mechanism to improve the situation, despite my extensive discussion in that post of problems and directions towards solutions potential.

"To make my post less gay, here some tits"

Possibly the gayest tits EVAR!

I approve.

11 days ago in #active by valued-customer

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urun 11 days ago

yeah weaponized downvotes are a huge problem. It needs a hardfork to fix the mechanics itself. Is like Religion groups or competitors would downvote each other. Pretty Retarded.

Also a downvote overwrites someones Upvote, rewards doesnt come from nowhere. So someone did value a meme or whatever and somebody else doesn't and overwrites it.

So the one with Hive voted it up is also unhappy. Means less people power up. Like myself. Is retarded to power up and play the game. I would love to support meme and fun, but as soon i power up 100k or 200k, some cartel would downvote the meme and fun ppl.

They destroy the value for themselves. With ppl here not for crypto and money the price more stable. Is also no freedom of speech more like reeducating people on what they can say or not.

Covid, only one Opinion was allowed; others shut down and downvoted. Same on other world events.

Maybe we see 2 cent Hive, this would force to change or go into the abyss.

Millions of hive powered down only because of this behavior. And i not at least one giga whale thinking about leaving ( on auto upvote, doesn't interact). All about politics, Content is not neutral and the unenjoyable spam content is trending. Is worse as AI content.

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3 votes

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urun 11 days ago

ah yeah btw, the worst is DAO pays hivewatchers for the bully service. Anti scam protection would be good. But not "community guidelines," that's the gayest shit ever on a decentralized network.

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3 votes

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hivewatchers 3 days ago

@valued-customer

Spamming someone else's memes for rewards is plagiarism. It makes no difference if it is a meme, photogrpahy or art. The content did not belong to the user.

Also, I did not put this account on the blacklist again 8 days ago. Some others have access to the spaminator blacklist.

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1 vote

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valued-customer yesterday (edited)

I appreciate you reaching out, and the information I was unaware of regarding @urun's account status.

I would like to note that memes have traditionally been uncopyrighted. No one claims them as original works, and sharing them as widely as possible has always been the desired result of making and posting them.

Because of this I do not think it is appropriate to pretend that posting memes is plagiarism, because no one has a claim on authoring a meme. I am pretty sure that if anyone ever tried to make such a claim they'd be roundly excoriated and no one would pay them any further mind whatsoever, nor any meme they produced.

When people do not claim to be the original authors of a work, whether meme or literature, but do attempt to source the material and provide editorial comment, I do not see that in any way to be plagiarism. I make every effort to provide source and to link to it when I post images I have found someone else made. I would like to see HW take a similar tack regarding memes they do pics, such that linking and citing source, and using them to illustrate editorial discussion is not plagiarism.

Would you find that a reasonable policy regarding memes?

Also, in my post seeking comment on improving DV's I would have very much appreciated some input from you. I expect your familiarity with DV's has given you plentiful observation of their shortcomings, and almost certainly to have prompted you to think of better ways to implement them. I doubt anyone could provide better insight into that subject that I was seeking. If you prefer to give it here rather than on my post that would be great. I don't post to make a bunch of money, because I post and read to better my understanding, and I have had my understanding bettered by you before. Do you have any thoughts on that matter?

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1 vote

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hivewatchers yesterday (edited)

Hi. Thanks for the comment 🙂 When they use someone else's work, they can simply mention that the content is not theirs. If they don't mention, they automatically claim the authorship of the content and deceive readers into thinking that they the are the authors. If plagiarised content is not tractable to the original is irrelevant. Poetry, articles, memes, tales, photography, art, jokes, etc. Memes are not any sort of exclusive and extraordinary content to get a jail free card. Hivewatchers have been explaining why it's abuse since it was created in 2016. If some content isn't traceable to the original author is irrelevant. It doesn't take any effort to simply mention the source from where the content was copied and pasted from to point out honestly that they aren't the authors. Rewards weren't declined, source of copying was not mentioned/non authorship wasn't mentioned so the content was deception towards readers and abusive activity to gain monetary and/or social reward. Also, even if the source of copypasta was mentioned but there's no significant personal thought added to sourced-shared content, it could be considered as no effort copypasta spam to fish for rewards (unless rewards declined).

I personally often use other's content when create a collage on social media including using memes. If I can't trace original source, I simply write in sourcing "Original Source of meme: unknown". In this way, my readers know that I didn't create it and I'm honest about all content used and clear about what was of my creation in collage.

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1 vote

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urun yesterday (edited)

I personally often use other's content when create a collage on social media including using memes. If I can't trace original source, I simply write in sourcing "Original Source of meme: unknown". In this way, my readers know that I didn't create it and I'm honest about all content used and clear about what was of my creation in collage.

Because you are the only one on the Internet doing it doesnt mean is good for the other 99%. Check any social media and show me at least 50% of cases ppl share of a meme the source.

Most people on Hive disagree with it. A poll at least, would be good ( so the rules can be voted on).

I promise you "no fun and random rules" will kill this Blockchain. And you take a big part into this.

Rules should be same to other social Media platforms (Otherwise, why use Hive? COme one, give me the sell point of Hive).

If i buy tomorrow for 5 BTC 5 Million hive, i am not allowed to vote for memes? So you are above every stakeholder?

Your rules above anyone on the chain?

You also dont see your power is a attac vector? Everyone can buy for 1 BTC hive now and copy your work ( For a attack, it would be enough to downvote all new users on autopilot).

Or if someone hates Christians or muslims, do the same for them. It shows that the downvote mechanism looks good on paper but is also something that will never let the chain scale.

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hivewatchers yesterday

Just because there's pervading content theft that's allowed to be rampant on social media, doesn't mean that it should be ignored.

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urun yesterday

Thats why i said you bully off Users. Exactly this.

having a token everyone ones and some Abuse and a lot of users is 100000 times better as a token Nobody wants and is worthless.

users are the value.

No users, No value. And Users come and stay where they have fun. Hive is in competition with the Internet.

PPl can decide where they go and they are not all underwater bagholders.

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valued-customer 21 hours ago (edited)

Fair enough, and exactly responsive to my query. A bit of common sense would seem nominal to extricate anyone with good faith from the problem. However, I personally have observed users being perennially DV'd on content that doesn't run afoul of that standard, and while I cannot state HW alone is responsible, the relationships between spaminator, Marky, and a variety of others I note practice that behaviour are opaque and cannot be confidently ascribed to any particular source, nor exclude any. As I am addressing you, I can only address things I have observed you to do.

Do you DV creators and accounts on content that does not feature such lapses in attribution just because they once did fail to do so? Do you limit application of DV's to content that is failing to properly attribute non-original work and personally editorializing or otherwise contributing original work, as you outlined above?

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hivewatchers 19 hours ago

Every user has their own view of what should or should not be abusive. HW's scope is clear and generally applied equally to each case. Of course, I take into account many different factors for blacklisting of downvoting, such as whether the user is new, intentionality, frequency of abuse, etc.

I do not blacklist new users. Neither do I downvote their new posts with abuse. New accounts that are downvoted are those that were evidently created as made-to-abuse.

If I see a new user who posted some AI spam or plagiarism, I would prefer to drop a general comment with guidelines, not specifying exactly what the abuse is. That's a different approach that I had in the past.

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1 vote

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valued-customer 11 hours ago

I am glad to see your considerations have evolved over time. It is difficult for users to grasp the need to provide original editorial content with material from other creators to qualify for rewards, as well as attribution for memes in particular. No other platform has such requirements for memes that I have seen, and they are simply reposted freely without sourcing.

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hivewatchers 3 hours ago

There's no momentary reward system for posting anything and system of curation. On other platforms.

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urun 3 days ago

short question:

https://peakd.com/@epsteinfiles/posts

Is this original content? Or not? Or is this spam? What if someone would upload a Banger meme archive this way?

Is it because rewards are burn? But that would be still not be original and spam ( or not?).

As far i see, nobody does interact with it, and it's also not really a backup since it's not easily searchable.

Next is what if this kind of content scales? Nobody reads but it backups something.

IDK that is the point. Its copy and paste and nobody will interact with it ( most likely) or read it since the files are on other places already backed up in really good interfaces.

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hivewatchers 3 days ago

The posts have rewards sent to burn, so there is no reward abuse with copypasta.

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urun 3 days ago

alright. So post memes but no rewards is ok.

Idea since you have influence, what if people have a default "fun mode"? Fun mode = no rewards.

And rewards can turned on ( so this gives users more freedom since rewards are this way optional). New users dont know.

And less work for you. maybe something worth a pitch to frontends.

I think that would end every " hivewatchers kills new users" talks.

And maybe display rewards more as a donation ( so new users doesnt feel entitled to it).

One more thing ( no rewards means also no rewards for a lot of hive engine front ends, i know most are bullshit anyway, but something to consider).

For example someone rewards memes with a shitcoin but cant because his shitcoin on HE is also turned off.

I know thats specific and maggi should be better anyway. But worth to think about it.

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hivewatchers 3 days ago

fun mode

Like you mentioned. Such features are up to each frontend to implement.

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urun 3 days ago

yeah but imagine wanting rewards is a decission and not default. That changes the dynamics and people would maybe post more in "fun mode".

Those little changes could have a real impact.

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