RE: The winners and losers of living in a decentralized community

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RE: The winners and losers of living in a decentralized community

tombstone in OCD • 6 years ago

It would really be wrong to fork out ALL mined stake. As @tarazkp said, non-STINC miners were at a huge disadvantage. And there was a lot of risk and plenty of cost associated with mining STEEM.

Not to mention, most involved spent a lot of time helping get the social network off the ground in the early days when there were not many users. Some have continued for years beyond that, trying to play one productive role or another in advancing the chain.

And while some have sold and gone, the ones still remaining have endured the emotional and financial roller-coaster of 2 boom/bust cycles, while continuing to have faith in the long-term success of this platform.

Forking out the stake of these participants would be a travesty in more ways than one. Please think twice about even suggesting such a thing again.

6 years ago in OCD by tombstone

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tarazkp 6 years ago

Agreed. Even if it wasn't that costly to mine, there was still a lot of risk and many of those miners have been among the most active voters/ participants for 4 years, many of which has been positive. However, most people don't actually know who the miners were, but I have talked openly and also face to face with several of them for years - which makes a difference.

People hear "mining" and associate it with the Stinc mine, which has been a monster waiting in the corner. Most do not recognize how much they and the platform have benefited from the other mined Steem. Fork or no fork, this shouldn't be a Salem witch hunt and creep the scope of what is necessary.

People talk about "starting again" with even stake on a fork and while I understand the sentiment, many of those haven't done the work that others have to be part of this community or to earn/buy the stake they have - me being one of those who has put in consistently. I wouldn't support a fork that forked 3+ years of my (or other people's) very hard work out as if it was meaningless and cost me nothing.

Interesting times.

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tombstone 6 years ago

It was costly (in the thousands). But yeah, especially costly relative to the high risks that existed due to a huge amount of uncertainty. People had no idea if the token would have value, whether it would get onto an exchange, or even precisely what the project was. To some extent it was blind faith in Dan.

And I agree the "start again" idea makes no sense. How many people in this community would go along with the idea of wiping out all of the history and prior effort? And why haven't they already tried it? Seems like they didn't need this crisis to take a whack at something like that. To me it just sounds like blind greed. People want to use an opportunity improve their position at the expense of others, without really understanding the consequences.

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tarazkp 6 years ago

I think that there are some people who haven't noticed the distribution that has come through the miners, you through curie, Phare through his trails, BT all over the place, Bue like Phare, Smooth with so much ... Many benefited, most had no idea. Even Ngc has been a major distributor over the years.

Part of the early problem I see, was that Ned gave his keys to the wrong people to vote with, and they lined their own pockets and then used that to continue doing so for years on end.

There are plenty of authors who have worked their ass off to be where they are today and don't want to have the future destroyed. People will protect themselves - others will try and get what they couldn't get earlier. I am yet to benefit financially from one STEEM yet... let's see if I ever will.

Part of the investment game is accepting the risk of a zero outcome.

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meesterboom 6 years ago

Was there really plenty of cost involved in mining steem? At the very beginning. How could that be?

They were at a huge disadvantage to STINC. Yes, I am not entirely sure what that brings to the table though?

I dare say people made a lot of money in the boom cycle. It would have been hard not to.

I don't doubt there are remainer miners who have supported the platform, it's development and it's authors.

But we have grown now. We have the means of funding developers and development. Do we need the early miners and their steem?

We didn't deal with the ninja mine. Look where we are.

So I won't think twice before suggesting that if we are to start again then why be timid about it. Why not address issues now instead of starting with the same old flawed model minus a little bit.

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tombstone 6 years ago

Was there really plenty of cost involved in mining steem? At the very beginning. How could that be?

What do you mean how could that be? Are you aware of how mining works? The more hash power being devoted to mining, the more expensive it is to mine the same stake. So yes, it was costly, especially relative to the very high risk. There was a huge amount of uncertainty.

They were at a huge disadvantage to STINC. Yes, I am not entirely sure what that brings to the table though?

Who said the disadvantage brought anything to the table? It simply made mining STEEM more costly and risky. And put the miners in a completely different category than STINC.

But we have grown now. We have the means of funding developers and development. Do we need the early miners and their steem?

So fork people out because you deem them unnecessary? What, pray tell, do YOU bring to the table? Should you be forked out?

We didn't deal with the ninja mine. Look where we are.

I wonder if you understand the difference between STINC and the other early miners. Doesn't seem like it.

So I won't think twice before suggesting that if we are to start again then why be timid about it. Why not address issues now instead of starting with the same old flawed model minus a little bit.

Do you really want to give early miners more incentive to dump now? I'm not even sure why you're so hung up on removing their stake. Are you a socialist/communist or something?

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meesterboom 6 years ago

Well, it didn't take much for the accusations of socialist and Communist to come out.

It's ok, people fear change. I get it.

And I would expect this kind of rhetoric from those who mined. It is only natural to safeguard what you have.

I think I understand perfectly well how mining works. I read with great fascination the mining debacle on here on other forums.

I don't think you understand that the purpose of the platform is not to keep those who mined early in pocket change?

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joeyarnoldvn 6 years ago

But that's not going to stop people from forking. People fork. We got Weku, etc. Yes, people should fight hard to keep Steem as decentralized as possible. We should vote for witnesses, etc. But that doesn't mean we should not also have backup plans if all else fails. It's smart to have backup plans. I'm not saying we should give up on Steem. Just keep an open mind. And have a plan B just in case. Focus on trying to save Steem and everything. But be emotionally prepared. Prepare yourself for failure as it can always happen.

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