RE: Fairness

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acidyo in #fair • 10 days ago

As long as it isn't used maliciously I don't think downvotes make this place worse.

I usually like to compare to facebook/youtube/x to Reddit as the formers have all removed dislikes/downvotes, the latter hasn't. The platform I find most interesting is usually reddit because it has filtered a lot of the "bad content" away and only what the majority have liked is visible to me.

It's difficult to compare because we use stake here and there's also way too few people doing active downvoting so there's never any real conflicts or cases where certain posts get rewarded more after a downvote occurs because of the downvote. We're just too small to see it come to fruition properly and to then decide if it is good the way it is now or if it needs fuether changes.

10 days ago in #fair by acidyo

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hanshotfirst 9 days ago

“ As long as it isn't used maliciously I don't think downvotes make this place worse.” is this based on logic or emotion. Logically downvotes serve their purpose. Emotionally they drive people away.

“ We're just too small to see it come to fruition properly and to then decide if it is good the way it is now or if it needs further changes.”

We have had 9 years to grow. I realize I am a very small sample size. So small that this is not scientific. But I have not met a single person outside of Hive who I told “You earn curation rewards for voting on what you like. But someone can come along and negate that vote with a downvote so you can’t be sure you will get that curation.” This is where every single conversation stops with the other person saying “no thanks”.

I’m not saying downvotes don’t have their purpose. They are essential for stopping illegal or immoral posts. But using them to adjust rewards and to shape what people can and can’t vote on (if they hope to maximize their return on investment through curation rewards) goes against basic human nature. Humans as a species are not fully logical creatures.

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acidyo 9 days ago

and when I talk to people they ask "what stops someone from just voting yourself 11 times per day"

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hanshotfirst 9 days ago

Like I said, downvotes do have a purpose. And that specific purpose happens to be one that I believe many people could understand logically and emotionally. The exception would be if those 11 posts could attract an audience from outside of Hive. But this highlights another problem. Even though we are tiny, the community has never provided a concrete downvote criteria. If I could explain to someone, “avoid upvoting your own post 11 times a day, avoid posting anything immoral or illegal, etc.” it could make sense. But right now the reality is that anyone can and will downvote just because they feel like it. And often times the person will ask “what did I do so I won’t do it again?” They are met with silence so it’s a punishment without any chance to reform. When the answer is “you did nothing wrong, I just think you got too many votes” there is no way the average person will find that pleasant. Obviously, you can use logic to explain, but the fact is that problem targets emotion not logic. A very easy response would be “Wait. So many people wanted to encourage me that someone else said it was too much encouragement.” Very few “regular” people are signing up for that. And this isn’t even counting the fact that psychological studies show that basically people would be happier if they get 5 things that they keep as opposed to being given 20 things and then having 10 things taken away. Logic would dictate that you have 5 more things. But emotion interferes and causes you to miss the 10 things that you never really had. That is why seeing a reward one day and then seeing it lowered the next has a more negative effect than simply getting a small reward. Hive is very heavy on logic and very light on emotion and human nature. It might be possible that is why it is so hard to attract and keep people here.

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networkallstar (1) 3 days ago (edited)

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