RE: An Idea to Find Compromise on Downvotes

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RE: An Idea to Find Compromise on Downvotes

valued-customer in #hive • 4 days ago

"...talking about downvotes kind of sucks..."

People take their money real personal. I try not to, because it's better for me not to, but that's the best I can do with the subject. It's still gonna rile people up.

I also enjoy talking with you. You say it straight, and I'm never going to learn anything from someone that doesn't. You also have self respect, so speak words you won't regret later, and that makes you easy to talk to. I like that you care about Hive. I care about Hive, too. I feel this platform has built in functions that can change the world, but it has flaws that keep those functions from being usable. That's why I keep trying to gain agreement regarding them so that enough people can set to finding a way to get Hive on the right track. All three of us here, including Antisocialist, have that same interest.

It's kind of funny we have such divergent views that will make it difficult to come to agreement about these things. However, if we can manage to do so, we'll have covered the gamut of arguments against what we agree on and will have an easier time of convincing others.

4 days ago in #hive by valued-customer

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hurtlocker 4 days ago

People take their money real personal.

But here is my issue when talking to you about this. You are very smart. You have deep understanding of the incentive structures on HIVE; this is VERY uncommon.

You know that the person who receives an upvote before a payout has not received anything until the post is paid out. The "money" is still in the reward pool. We do not even know what the exact payout will be until it is paid out. Until a reward is paid out, that money belongs to the reward pool. Unfortunately the reward pool is much more like socialism than capitalism.

I think you are fundamentally correct about downvotes in a lot of ways. But I also think you have had a lot of bad experiences watching downvotes used in the wrong ways and you project a lot of that on me.

But I will give you an example of why my recent downvote was not as bad as you think. So this Karen account keeps posting and getting upvoted. Even after declining rewards. Why? These are auto upvotes from the Steem days. So people who get auto upvotes are able to do things other accounts cannot. In a normal world without auto upvotes, as soon as the Karen account started dumping years ago, she would stop getting upvotes.

We cannot realistically stop auto upvotes. Like it is impossible. So I think we need downvotes. I used to downvote for a lot of reasons but now overtime I just downvote based on KE. There are exceptions but still. KE is very objective. And the person already got paid. They are selling the rewards they earned, even if they were auto upvotes. But if stakeholder(s) do not want someone getting rewards anymore because the person does not invest in the ecosystem, I think that is legitimate. And, if that person was being upvoted by active accounts her getting downvoted forever is way less likely.

There is an issue with HIVE which is people do not really understand what we are dealing with. HIVE cannot function if people only want to maximize returns. On the flip side, if people do not focus on making money and only focus on doing good, HIVE cannot function either.

So the majority of stake needs to operate in a way where we are trying to make profits and we are trying to do good at the same time.

People on HIVE that only do good are not very effective. And people who try to only make money are not very effective.

People who try to do both are well known but not always popular like they should be.

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hurtlocker 4 days ago

@valued-customer I know I said I didn't want to talk about downvotes with you anymore, but you went there and I was just like, who cares 🤣

I don't mind talking about downvotes. I just don't like when I get thrown into a bucket where I am just the same as every other "downvoter." Like you never asked me for a detailed explanation on why I think that account should not get rewards. Instead you said my use of the downvote in that case was abuse. It is very unlike you when I normally talk to you for you to interact with me that way.

You are always welcome to lobby for me to remove my downvote on another user. I think that is totally fine. You might do a better job than the person who is freaking out tbh. Most people get downvoted and create a situation where it is way worse. What this Karen account did is a great example of making it worse.

On the flip side, there are accounts that get downvoted that do not get zeroed out forever. It happens more than you would think. It is just the people who are the loudest that get the most attention.

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