Hive is full of economic flat earthers

in Ecency8 days ago (edited)

Please may we hit another all time low and reach the HBD haircut because it will be so fucking funny.

Imagine how funny it would be if HBD depegs further from the USD into like under 50 cents per HBD, all those entitled friends of powerful stakeholders that think they can't be defunded, being defunded by economic conditions they swear to god they can control.

Unlike with big Hive stake, they can't negotiate their way into HBD peg because they can't do political deals with the market and the market doesn't want to absorb all the sell pressure.

Hive is near bankruptcy. We have amost no money and no liquidity left. Still some people swear that to escape we need to "spend smarter" instead of taking REAL AUSTERITY MEASURES.

No one, be it an individual, a company or a country, escaped bankruptcy by spending "smart", they can delay and use the delays to deny reality. To escape bankruptcy one needs to CUT SPENDING.

What is left for us mere mortals, without power or influence, to do is laugh. They will keep living off of our "taxes" (that is, inflation) and the best we can do is laugh because their pay gets smaller as HBD depegs further and HIVE keeps tanking and they keep saying "yeah but I need to keep getting paid or else we can't escape this"

Peak comedy. It is hilarious in its irony, they can't prevent what they are trying to prevent, which is defunding.

The market yearns to stop spending, it is the exact same story when people, companies and governments face bankruptcy like we are facing. They either cut voluntarily or they get cut because they've ran out of money, of liquidity in our case because we will never stop printing. We are like a country that when faced with inflation we keep doubling down on printing more money and spending more.

And you know what? I tried and I can't change anyones mind. Quite the opposite, some people who proudly "live off of Hive" ended up doubling down. So honestly right now I just wish it all keeps going down. We will not make money with Hive, that is reserved for the friends of the Hive oligarchs, but we can sure laugh off of their slow bleeding.

We can rejoice imagining their pikachu surprise faces when with all their funding they still can't sell it because liquidity dried all up.

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I really do hope the best for the ecosystem and all the crypto social platforms have suffered price implosion pulled down by the greater market.

What has been built here has been very impressive but has also been an interesting lesson in governance.

Crypto in general has been an interesting lesson.

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I have to agree.
People like @crimsonclad are still shamelessly dumping Hive, as if there is no tomorrow. And @blocktrades and the "usual suspects" are supporting this leeching behavior. Completely reckless.
With such "role models" I see no hope. They seem completely unaffected.
We need to create a revenue stream for Hive, to create buy pressure. But seems nobody is interested in this. More priority have useless Hivefests...

Or even without buy pressure we at least need to stop pounding the order books with sell orders.

Asking for a business model may be too much, in 10 years they never built one and it is not now that we will successfully transition, that is the long term play if we want to be optimistic.

The short term play is to stop giving a check for some people to consume and ruin the little liquidity there is left. We will not spend our way out of this hole because no one ever did, we need to stop digging deeper. Why don't they stop digging deeper?

That is the key question. I would love to know from one of those topvoters if they EVER would consider unsupporting the proposals, if Hive reaches 0,045 or 0,04 or 0,03?
I have the feeling they would never. As if they have enough milked out of Hive so that they don´t care anymore. This is the sad conclusion for me.

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Sorites paradox I think, maybe they even think "if it goes low enough yes I will cut funding"

But every time it goes low it still doesn't feel low enough and they still keep funding and thinking that "when it is low enough I will cut it all off".

Like in the paradox, when is the last grain you can take off of heap of sand that makes it stop being a heap of sand? How low is low enough that they need to cut funding?

I wish they said clearly either "I will never cut funding" or "I will cut funding when..." and gave us numbers

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With some of the proposal payouts ending soon, and a few sellers wrapping things up, things may be looking up by august/september.

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don't worry, there can always be another hardfork to raise the debt limit....

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When you have enough money to never worry about money again, you can live how you want to live and never have to answer to anybody again.
You can be as irrationally obstinate as you please.

Somebody is supporting the price, or it would have collapsed in 2017 when this issue was first breached.
Most of those folks were flagged off the platform, as you may recall.

With the fork to hive, the commitment to free speech received a boost.
What's his name was run off and now we can complain without fear of reputational harm, as was the case in the past.
So, we got that going for us.

Until the crowd is buying more than those that already have 'too much', what we have is what we can expect.
'They' are really doing us all a favor keeping the price low like this, imo, power is on sale.

I can't disagree with you. It is the reason I started buying slowly again recently. But it is a gamble, not just about the money but as you say about power and influence.

Buying HIVE now for influence is gambling that the big stake holders will allow themselves to get diluted and lose their almost (but not quite) absolute power

It's a crab bucket, for sure.
On a 50 year scale, we are doing just fine.
We simply must bring in enough folks that power up to overcome the drain on us by the improvident.

don't fool yourself... with current prices, the amount of HBD sitting in the DHF now can dilute any possible buyers for the next 100 years.

Now we have stated clearly why soooo many people have left.

Betamax was better tech, too.

Fully agree

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It would be fun to remove the option of withdrawing hive or HBD all together for a period of time and then introduce it again but with a cap of 10% withdrawal rate a month or something xD

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Hmmmm, what about a proposal to use the DHF to buy hive and burn it? It may not affect the price or at least not for long, but it would be a better use of the money than it's currently being used for

HBD is abstracted HIVE debt. It sounds useful but would just be giving liquidity to the market. Not good, not terrible. People that actually want to sell HIVE sell it on exchanges, we can't use HBD to buy HIVE in exchanges and people looking to do it in the internal market are just looking to invest in HIVE to get the HBD yield, so it is just giving liquidity to them, not terrible IMO but not very useful.

how are we giving liquidity to them if it's burned?

We wouldn't be burning anything in practice if we print HBD to buy HIVE. We would be giving HIVE in debt (HBD) for in exchange of HIVE in liquid form. Both are HIVE. HBD is Hive backed, it only has value because it is inherently and directly convertible to HIVE. People that wanted to swap or convert HIVE into debt (HBD) would just have a liquid way of doing by exchanging with the printed HBD. You burn the HIVE, they still have the same value in debt form as HBD.

We are already printing it and I'm betting that's not going to change, so think of it from that standpoint

Are you trying to ragebait me? This is one of the dumbest things I have read because you are trying to turn into a matter of opinion what is an economic and programatically objective mechanism. HBD is convertible to HIVE. At the bottom line what you suggest would devalue HBD, value HIVE and at the end the HBD would be convertible back to HIVE, possibly at a better rate. Are you forgetting we ALREADY HAVE A BLOCKCHAIN NATIVE FUNCIONALITY TO CONVERT HBD TO HIVE THAT ALREADY EFFECTIVELY BURNS HIVE? Without manipulating the market to do so and without lower risks of expanding the monetary base?

If you print HBD to buy HIVE you are essentially cutting the native mechanism that ALREADY EXISTS that converts HIVE to HBD.

I repeat, it ALREADY EXISTS. Users already can convert HIVE to HBD and the converted HIVE is burned.

What you are proposing is printing HBD beyond what the demand may already exists and create a secondary mechanism to convert HIVE into HBD.

I highly recommend you taking a step back and reading Hive docs about what HBD is and the native "DeFi" options such as HIVE <-> HBD conversion, you seem to either not know about existing functionalities or to lack understanding of how they work.

Printing HBD to buy HIVE is not burning anything because HBD is HIVE. It is a leveraged operation that may even INCREASE the supply of HIVE because HBD is directly and inherently convertible to HIVE, you are just GIVING LIQUIDITY because you are taking away the 3 days needed to convert.

You rage way too easily and read more into shit than what is there. Keep up that tact or lack of it and you won't get too far

By the way, I believe you can send any token to null for burning, so you really wouldn't need to convert it, but thought that using it to raise the price a bit would be a better use.

So, what I was actually doing other than faux rage baiting you was to start a convo offering an option that could lead to a back and forth, which could potentially lead to more options. I guess you're more of the "my way or the highway type of guy."

I tried to explain patiently but you fail to understand HBD is HIVE and there is already a mechanism that burns HIVE and returns HBD exactly as you describe. You are proposing giving liquidity to an action that already exists and failing yo understand why it is NOT BURNING ANYTHING because HBD IS HIVE

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